Stephanie Wong: Hi Ajay. Thanks for having me.

Ajay Prasad: Yes. So, let’s start with some background for me and also for my audience so that they can relate to your questions better. So, if you don’t mind just give us a quick background in terms of about you and about your practice.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely. So, I’m Dr. Stephanie J. Wong. I am a licensed clinical psychologist. And I work at a veteran’s hospital. And for my private practice I work in the bay area with a lot of ethnic minorities, and they work primarily in tech. I have seen people across the mental health spectrum so I’m able to have a firm grasp of the more acute presenting issues that people have. And then in tech I don’t think they’re any different from anyone else. They have various issues of depression, anxiety. They may be diagnosed with bipolar disorder, etcetera. So, it’s been very rewarding to be able to work with multiple populations.

I am a solo practitioner and so I know today we’re gonna be talking about the possibility of how to build a group practice. I’m also the author of Cancel the Filter: Realities of a Psychologist, Podcaster, and Working Mother of Color.

Ajay Prasad: Okay. Perfect. And so, clearly you are in definitely the right area. We badly need to address this mental health issue in this country. I don’t know what has happened, but it looks like that’s a big disease. So, can you maybe share a little bit in terms of why you feel this explosion of the issue. If you look at the suicide rate, everything seems like it’s all time high. So, what are you finding? I’m just curious and I know that my audience would love to get your point of view in terms of what is triggering this sudden explosion of the requirement for mental health.

Stephanie Wong: I don’t think mental health has not been an issue in previous years. I think it’s becoming more front and center and people are talking about it more. Especially with the pandemic. And it showed that people need people. And isolation and separation from others, human contact, has not been helping. And as people are moving towards reintegrating and socializing, I’ve noticed that there’s a difficulty in doing so. Not only that, but most of our kids had to do school online. So, depending on what age they were doing that, maybe their socioemotional development has been delayed comparatively to previous generations.

Ajay Prasad: Makes a lot of sense what you are saying. So, thank you. Good. So, Dr. Wong, let’s get down to your specific questions. See if I can help you. So, why don’t you go ahead and start with your questions.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely. So, like I mentioned, I’m a sole proprietor and work as the only provider. And that’s why I started the podcast, Color of Success, because I wanted to give more resources for guests to share their insight about their presenting concerns or ways that they’ve been able to build parallel to some of the issues that they’ve been facing. And so, there’s a huge stigma in our communities in various ethnic minority communities but particularly in the AAPI community of even seeking mental health. And so, I’m really hoping to build a possible group practice.

Now, my bandwidth has been pretty limited as you’ve seen from all the things that I have my hands in. So, how would you transition from a solo practice to a group practice?

Ajay Prasad: Here is what I’ll give you, my suggestion. Because in an interesting way I transitioned not in the profession. When I started my business, I was the one person doing everything. I tell people that I was a janitor, I was the CEO, I was everything. And as you start to grow, what you have to decide is what are the areas that you have to be involved in. So, the only way to start getting into the next move – Because as you get into more of a group practice there will be a different time requirement. So, the different requirements and it’s identifying No. 1) What the requirements are on your end. What are the things that you can pass it on to someone else.

As you have practice, you have more help in what would you like to delegate. So, the decision to delegate what portion of your work is going to be the most critical piece. That’s how it was actually for me. Once I learned to start delegating things became so much more manageable. And that’s where you will be able to think about how to grow the practice. The group practice is almost like, “Okay, how do I handle everything?” So, you have a lot of moving parts right now as you have already mentioned. The next step before you even take a plunge into the group practice is to decide and say, “Okay, what are the moving parts that I want someone else to handle, not me?

And I can tell you that it won’t be an easy task. I’m telling you as a businessperson because when you start your business and you are running everything it’s very difficult to take a step back and say, “Oh, this is not important.” Or, “Someone else can do it.” Because we have the tendency that we are the best at everything. That’s how you become an entrepreneur anyway. So, given that, I will do that. Maybe some business coach will help but really you have to think about what are the things you enjoy most. Which is also important. And figure out how you want to start offloading some of the work.

Stephanie Wong: Could you walk me through a little bit of that decision making process for yourself? Because as an entrepreneur myself as well I’ve had to really think about those questions. And I guess I’m wondering your insight on that because I’ve incorporated an editor/producer into the podcast. A social media manager. And really reached out to community contacts. But how do you identify what to offload to people and what to keep?

Ajay Prasad: So, I will keep it short so I can share with you my experience. First thing, I started my business from my home. So, my first decision was to move out of the house and rent an office after a year and a half in the business. And the second thing that I did is when I hired an assistant for myself it freed up so much of my time that it was not even funny. Because here I was, you come in and someone calls. I don’t know how you are at managing it but in my case, I can tell you that I was taking every phone call. I was answering everything. I was telling people, “Sorry, we are not interested,” if they are trying to sell something. A lot of my time was going on the phone.

So, having someone to answer the phone was already such a huge difference because she could sort it out. I’m saying, “She,” because it was she, when I hired her. And she was able to even address some of the issues of the client. All of a sudden, I had a lot of free time to focus on trying to see where my business is working and where it’s not working. Where I need to make changes which may be something that I shrugged off. So, that was the starting point. And after that I started to realize that I cannot be expert in everything. We were doing digital marketing. It’s like, “No, I cannot be expert in everything.

So, I started to identify my strengths which always has been the strategy. I used to be in corporate America before I started my business. But always strategy. And I enjoy doing that. So, as I started to say, “Okay, I want to focus on the strategy aspect of my client business, and I need to hire people to do the execution.” I was doing the execution also for them. And of course, you don’t build a team directly. So, the most tedious thing that I least enjoy, I hired someone to do the work for me. And eventually kept on moving down and bringing people to delegate. Now obviously I have a fairly large team of 400 people. So, you just keep on moving.

Get to a point where now I spend most of my time either troubleshooting, or strategizing, or discussing the goal plan. The marketing. And that’s the piece the I have been to. So, I’m no longer in the weeds of the business but I’m doing everything. And so, you can see from doing everything, like I said, janitor to CEO. So, whether you are doing the strategy, or doing marketing, now I have whittled it down to the area that I enjoy most. I know that I am most effective there. And as a result, a lot of people within the organization also we have the chance to thrive. Because I understand what they are doing but I don’t interfere because I don’t need to. I can see that they’re doing a good job.

Like I always say, I can do it, but I don’t want to do it. So, that’s what I would do. If you introspect, take a look at all your activities. The one thing that I did best, and I will tell you, there was a time when I almost parted and just going to go back to work. I was in decent demand in those days. Because it felt like unending seven days a week and I was not very happy. And one Saturday I went and I started reflect, I stared to look at what is happening. It turned out that there were four clients that were creating so much hassle for me that I was running like chicken without head. So, what I did on Monday, calmly called those clients and I resigned their accounts.

Like, “Okay. One month notice that I was supposed to give you.” Now, all of them talked. Two of them said, “Fine, I cannot change.” The two of them said, “Okay. Sorry. I didn’t realize what I was doing.” They ended up staying. And this time I’m telling you about 2005. And one of the clients is still my client today, which is 18 years and fairly significant. In dollar terms is probably the largest dollar for my business has come from that pretty good client. So, that’s what introspection. Try to see what you’re enjoying, what you’re not enjoying. And then also when the things that you enjoy, take a look at what you are doing in terms of getting the most out of it.

So, if you are doing podcasting … and I do podcasting. But for me, I do podcasts because I just want people who are interested to listen to it and understand. And maybe help give them some ideas. It’s like, “Oh, okay. This is what I can do for my business.” I don’t have any ambition, I would say, to become podcaster of the year and have a million people following me. So, the activities that we do for podcast is sufficient that after this podcast we’ll post it out. We will put it on our social media. We will know that everyone who is interested can see it. And beyond that I’m good. Versus if I was in the podcasting business then I would put a lot more energy to popularize it so that a lot of other people read.

So, when you are doing all the time that you are spending, take a step back and say, “Okay, what I am doing?” And really, if you are doing half of it, it always, I would say you are better off stopping it. I’m from the marketing arena. I worked years back in the corporation when I was responsible for TV, and radio, and print advertising all over the country. And my philosophy always was that I will take one channel and until I saturate it I’m not going to even bother about other channels. In other words, I don’t believe in sprinkling a little bit of money here, a little bit there. What I am saying, money is the same things as efforts. So, you have 24 hours a day.

So, whatever time that you are spending on different business activities, you have to make sure that it’s not affecting your other activities. In other words, you are not spending enough time on other things that will give you the highest return. So, whatever you pick up, my suggestion is just make sure that 100% of that is done. Rather than taking and doing 80% of five things. I would do 100% of two things. And you will find that is more effective when you are building your business.

Stephanie Wong: So, I’m wondering too about that fiscal distribution. Because a lot of times as entrepreneurs when you start you have very little seed money. And so, balancing that risk taking of building your team out and acquiring customers and things like that. How do you manage that anxiety but also the realism that you’re not necessarily in the green yet when you’re doing a project?

Ajay Prasad: If you ask me now when I reflect back, I find not having a lot of money is a big plus. Because it forces you to focus on what activity is going to give you the highest return. I know that you are in the Silicon Valley and there is a tendency that, “Okay, I want to breathe and how much money can I raise?” I do some also mentoring and I cannot tell you how many times I have someone come in and I said, “Why are you looking to raise funds? I don’t even understand that.” If you don’t have $25,000.00, $50,000.00, you shouldn’t be in the business if you don’t have support to survive.

So, I will tell you the anxiety goes up because we always overextend. So, if you overextend yourself, you will become more anxious. The other thing that I always say is, when you have started a business, the success will not be instantaneous. What you need is persistence. And you figure out the goal. You should be growing but don’t make it unrealistic. So, one of the biggest reasons for anxiety is that say you are at $1,000,000.00 revenue. And next day you want to get to $10,000,000.00. Of course, you go and you read case studies and you will find five companies in the universe that got that. But those are really the major outliers. So, again, given your resources, you should have a growth plan.

But be very realistic so that you can do it. And please do not overextend since you are starting your own business. It just never makes sense to overextend. The biggest reason, by the way, that companies that started go out of business, is because there aren’t enough resources. And overextending never makes sense. And I know of the businesses and many failures. And some successes, also. They took loans to go out and run a big advertising campaign. And my answer is always, yes, today if I know that I can spend $1,000,000.00 and I will get $5,000,000.00 in return, of course I will beg, borrow, steal. I will manage to get that.

But if it’s maybe you will get $5,000,000.00, I’m not going to do that because that can really disrupt my life. Maybe that doesn’t work out. Being able to sleep at night, I learned that is very important. What you are saying, I was very much like that. Overextending I never did, by the way. So, it was never my thing to grow the business into $100,000,000.00 in three years. So, I’m not saying it cannot be done, by the way, Dr. Wong. But all I can tell you is that was not my plan. My plan was to first grow a company that can endure, that can last for long time. We have been in business for 20 years now this year.

Stephanie Wong: Congratulations.

Ajay Prasad: Thank you. And I cannot tell you how many businesses that started during my time. And really it was almost like a fly by night offer. I was in digital marketing and suddenly the companies would pop up. And they would say, “Oh, we are doing several websites a month.” And it’s like, “I don’t know how you get the business there.” Like, a huge call center and they’re calling everyone. And then the owner got rich and then the business disappeared. I don’t know if the clients were happy or not happy. But obviously all the employees, you can imagine that the owner makes money and says, "Oh, I’m done.” I don’t even know what they were doing. And there’s so many companies that came in and went.

I was active in chamber of commerce, I met with many of those people, and their goal was to become rich very quickly. And some of them probably got, I don’t know because I don’t follow. But I can tell you the companies are not there. So, versus the companies that have stayed that I know and most of them are doing honestly better than me. They were solid. They had a plan to stay in the long run. Grew. Many of them grew faster than me so they must’ve done something right. But the fact is they went and raised money. I didn’t raise money because whatever. That was one of my things. But yeah, all the enduring companies are the ones who were in no hurry.

So, they had a long-term view and then they were specific. And at the same time, when you see something not working, just give it.

Stephanie Wong: So, one of the last questions I have is for those that are teetering on whether to keep their full-time job or take the jump as an entrepreneur, what advice would you give those folks?

Ajay Prasad: So, I would say that your personal situation must dictate that decision. For example, suppose you are married, and you can live. So, you don’t have to worry about the mortgage and the rent.

Stephanie Wong: That’s typically not the case in the bay area unless you are that unicorn.

Ajay Prasad: Exactly. I know that. So, it should be the personal situation. I can tell you that because I was in the corporate America for 17 years and I did okay. Not a big deal but I’ve been a vice president for large companies for quite some time. So, I knew that I can sustain for four years without any revenue. Even there I was very careful not to go and dump all the money quickly. And that being slow helped me with things that are not working. When you are starting up I will tell you, you will fail. Not as a business but a lot of things that you do, you will fail. That’s given. My advice always is fail quickly, fail cheaply.

Stephanie Wong: I love that.

Ajay Prasad: Yeah. Try it and don’t waste too much time. And don’t waste too much money. So, when you are trying 10 things and nine things fail, fine so long you are not spent a lot of money and a lot of time. You can move on. Learn the lessons and the one that works you can build upon that. Unfortunately, there’s no answer for that. Your personal situation has to dictate. I know that, again, the [inaudible] [0:25:32] you will hear of people saying, “Oh, I put everything, and they took my house and took a loan.” Yeah, some people succeed with that. But many people also go bankrupt in their personal life. So, that’s what I always say.

It depends on your own situation. And also, I would say your personality. When I started my business, I had two kids going to middle school. So, really, I had a very different situation. And I never had that personality to put everything at risk. And I’m betting everything on this. But I’m not saying this is bad. I will not put down someone who does it because that tells you their commitment and their belief in it. It’s just that when someone asks me for advice I say, “I won’t do that.” Just because I won’t do that so I cannot suggest someone that needs to try that.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely. No, that makes a lot of sense.

Ajay Prasad: So, tell me. If you don’t have any questions, I have a couple of questions for you.

Stephanie Wong: Sure.

Ajay Prasad: So, what is the plan? How many years you have been in your practice and when you want to start to move on? So, first thing, are you also working and doing this practice?

Stephanie Wong: Yes. Yes, I work at a hospital for military veterans. And I’ve been there for over a decade.

Ajay Prasad: Okay.

Stephanie Wong: Yeah. I’m in a leadership role. I have 17 years left until my 30 years. And so, I started really young. I went straight from my undergrad to the PhD program. And so, my 30 years I will be in my 50s versus in my late 60s.

Ajay Prasad: Okay.

Stephanie Wong: Yeah. And also, I started the practice in 2016. So, I didn’t go straight from working to jumping into another situation. Although, it was appealing to me. It was more of, “Hey, let’s try this.” I liked your mantra. It’s like, “Let’s try this out. It’s very low risk.” I wasn’t looking to do it, but a colleague said, “Hey, we’re renting out this space for $10.00 an hour,” which is dirt cheap here. On the days that I could work. And so, I said, “Hey, let me try it out.” It’s by hour of use so it wasn’t like I had to pay monthly rent if I didn’t use it. And so, I was like, “Hey, let me see.” And at the time a startup was building up where they were contracting new providers.

And I’ve been with that company since 2017 and I absolutely believe in what they’re doing. They pay their providers very, very well. And also, on the side I was able to now build about half or 60% of private pay versus taking on that contracting work. So, there was very little risk when I started. And the podcast didn’t come until the pandemic when I took Dr. Varghese’s Selling the Couch podcast. He really helped me build my business from the private practice side of it. And so, when he offered a free master class, I love free, I was like, “Yeah. Let me check this out.” I wasn’t in the business of trying to start a whole podcast empire whatnot.

But he said, “What message do you want to communicate?” And, like I said, I couldn’t see everyone one on one. Fortunately, people were starting to seek help at that time. And even now. And so, I was like, “Okay. I really wanna destigmatize mental health in the community.” So, I started this and now we’re in season six. Something I get a lot of joy out of, like you said, podcasting is a business in itself. And I don’t look at it as, “This is gonna be my sole source of income.” In fact, I fund a lot of it. But more so that I’m able to connect with people. I love talking to people. I’m so glad I met you. This has been an amazing experience. And these folks tend to turn into my friends and a support system.

Ajay Prasad: Yeah. Perfect.

Stephanie Wong: Yeah.

Ajay Prasad: Perfect. Your podcasting is almost similar to what my goals are.

Stephanie Wong: Yes.

Ajay Prasad:

Stephanie Wong: So, I basically have my private practice on the days where I’m not there. I work four 10s. And so, I’m able to sprinkle in. I’ve really continued to set that goal for myself in private practice to pull back a lot because fortunately, for the first time ever since I’ve been there, they have really provided some great benefits. They’ve always provided great benefits but in terms of financially. And so, now I have way less pressure to do more private practice clients. And so, I’m pretty selective in my slots. In fact, for the past couple years I’ve only taken a couple new clients. And anytime I’m like, “Okay, I’m capped out.

Then the clients from three years ago come back and say, “Hey, can I have a checkup or a startup session?” So, then it becomes accommodating those folks. But I always say I prioritize the patients that I’ve worked with because that’s the longstanding trusting relationship that you build with your providers. And so, I’ve tried to scale back that. And then I took a break from podcasting during the holidays in terms of recording and things like that. So, I try my best to do that. And I say, as long as people wanna come on the show, I’m game. And so, it’s still rolling in and I had to, like you do, have a guest request form to make sure that people’s values were aligning with what our show was.

And it wasn’t just like, “Hey, I’m selling something.” No, I really wanna know the mental health impact or how you cope with mental health stressors while you are building what they’re building or their careers.

Ajay Prasad: Perfect. So, this is fantastic. Because you have overflow of clients maybe you can start with collaborating with someone. Maybe a young psychiatrist that you believe in. Or someone who is in your situation where you can together start to pass on your patient or clients. I like this kind of situations versus that other person could be a different kind of situation. If you like talking to the young people in the high-tech world with problems. My son is in Google, so I know exactly what you are talking about in terms of stress there. So, you have that. Maybe you can focus on that. And then someone you can collaborate with where some other people that come to you.

Or even some of your clients that you’d rather not deal with, you can pass it on. And vice versa. So, when you are building a practice, it’s one thing to say, “Okay. I have my practice and I’m going to build a group to hire people.” Another thing is to collaborate with another person to say, “Okay. Let’s just start a practice together.” So, essentially then you have a partner. Medical practices have this process of the partnership a lot. They started and they will bring the new physicians. For a while they will work on salary with a very clear expectation that they will build the practice so that they can start to contribute to the whole partnership. And eventually they become partners once they start doing it.

Look at the model of how medical practices are growing. And maybe that’s a model that could work for you beautifully without even needing to leave your day job. You can literally be there where you are taking the work that you love most where you are doing the best value. There are other people who can take care of other problems. And while they are doing it, they are also contributing to your practice rather than be a burden on it. So, just think about that particular option how you are doing. And that could be the way to do it. Just collaborate with someone, start to build together. I don’t know if you were thinking like that or were you thinking about doing it on your own? But this is one option. Take a jump and then find out if I’m going to swim or sink. That may be the option that I would suggest.

Stephanie Wong: Yeah. I’m interested in media. I’ve really enjoyed launching and publishing this book and being in podcasting. In terms of the private practice, I think that that’s something that I think about in terms of long term strategy of being able to step back on the one on one factor. I love the veterans. They have my heart. I work with people who are homeless, unemployed, have substance abuse issues. And so, it is interesting when folks don’t have resources. And like your son, Google offers that company Leer health benefits which provide them with anywhere from 15 to 20 free mental health sessions.

That is an amazing, amazing benefit. I like working with all kinds of people but one of my interests that I’ve grown is in media and being able to just educate folks.

Ajay Prasad: Yeah. And reach out to more people with your message. This is what I was talking about Dr. Wong, is just find the areas that you enjoy and put more emphasis on that. And like I said, you don’t have to give up on your private practice, but you can just have a collaboration. I have several doctor friends, there are a lot of Indian doctors.

Stephanie Wong: Yeah.

Ajay Prasad: Because the kind of business that I have, I have a lot of doctor friends. Not just Indian. But I have some very close doctor friends of Indian origin and I can see that their practice model is like, “Okay. Oh, so and so is covering for me.” And I’m like, “So, they cover. How does it work?” They’re like, “Oh, they bill for it.” So, it's just like, “Okay. I want to be freed up today, someone else is covering.” I know that in your business that’s much harder.

Stephanie Wong: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: And I do know you can’t have someone say, “Oh, sorry. I’m not available, you can see Dr. XYZ.” Because it’s a very personal situation. Having said that, start to think about the model for the new patients that come in that you may not be able to take it. And also, just think about it. Focus on the area that you love most. And if it’s the podcasting. Steve Jobs said a long time back, “The most important thing about success is your passion.” If you really don’t like something, if you’re in business just so you can make money, you’ll get burnt out very quickly because it’s always very hard. By the way, I’m a big fan of Steve Jobs. And that was his thing. He was very passionate about what he did.

You just focus on the areas that you really are passionate about so that when you run into the obstacles which you will in life, you’re not going to give up quickly. You will persist because this is where your heart is.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely.

Ajay Prasad: Find that piece. By the way, I’m done with your podcast but I’m very happy to talk. You should just keep up. I’m very excited to see someone like you getting into entrepreneurship journey which you have already taken. And with all the different options that you have. So, I will be very curious to see how everything works out.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely. And by the way, Steve Jobs was a very complicated individual as we’ve seen. At least in public perception which is very interesting to me because in terms of light communication, and delegation, and all those things. And I think that’s a good point that I’d like to communicate is that entrepreneurship brings so many different facets of one personality out. And to really have a strong support system around you. And also, someone to check you and say, “Hey, maybe you’re overextending yourself,” like you mentioned. Or, “You might not have said that the best way.” And so, I think it’s a continual learning process for sure.

Ajay Prasad: Yeah. And every person has their own things that work for them. And that’s why I have a tendency to look at what someone achieved. And then so long it was done in an ethical manner. The Steve Jobs biography, when Isaacson asked Wozniak and said, “Hey, you know what? Did he have to be so rude?

Stephanie Wong: Exactly.

Ajay Prasad: And he said, “I don’t think so.” It’s like, “Suppose you were running Apple, would you be like that?” It’s like, “No way.” I won’t. And then he thought for a couple of minutes, but he said, “But you know what, I don’t think I would have got into Macintosh.” In other words, he is saying it was because of his insistence and focus. And the thing was that he said, “This is what I want.” And if you said, “It’s not possible,” then he will start yelling. It is possible. You will figure it out. And he said, “You know what? I will think that I would have managed to get Macintosh.” And Isaacson actually wrote a very nice article, Dr. Wong.

I suggest that you can Google it and it will show up. All you have to do is say Isaacson, plus Harvard Business Review, plus Steve Jobs or something. So, he wrote an article saying, “Hey, when I published my book there’s a lot of these perceptions about Steve Jobs.” And he takes the gist out of it and said, “Okay. I can tell you this is the reason. If you ignore all the personality and all those things, here’s the things that Steve Jobs did that worked for him.” And it’s really nice. It’s not very big. Maybe seven, eight pages article. You should read it because I think that since you are starting a business there’s a lot of good things there you will find.

Talking about the focus, talking about selecting few things to do than a lot of things to do, and all that. And the whole attitude about no compromise which is amazing. That’s what made Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs frankly. He would never compromise on any quality thing. When you get a chance, you should read that one, you would love it.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely.

Ajay Prasad: Because you already know enough about Steve Jobs that you’ll say, “Okay.” Because that’s what I have always tried to do. If you’re a jerk in real life, can I learn something?

Stephanie Wong: Sure, sure.

Ajay Prasad: He owned Apple. That would be my attitude. I’ve not read the book on Musk, but Musk is just … people get either, “I’m a big fan,” or, “I hate him.” And I’m like, “I don’t know why.” I don’t love him. I don’t hate him. But he has done something amazing so I would like to learn how he does it so that maybe I can use some piece of it in my own thing. And you would understand more than anyone else that emotionally if you take yourself out then you are just able to see what are the golden nuggets. And of course, when you are big nuggets, you will see a lot of dirt around there. But you don’t focus on dirt, you just focus on the nuggets.

Stephanie Wong: Absolutely. Well, I would love to keep in contact with you and your team. You guys are fantastic, so I definitely look forward to that.

Ajay Prasad: Okay. Thanks Dr. Wong. I think we just went over a long time, but it was such a pleasure talking to you today.

Stephanie Wong: Thank you so much.

Ajay Prasad: Let’s stay in touch. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Speaker: All right. Dr. Wong, since we are wrapping up our podcast do you have anything to say to the audience? Any promotion going on?

Stephanie Wong: I did. I have my book right here. We just published it. It’s called Cancel the Filter: Realities of a Psychologist, Podcaster, and Working Mother of Color. And it’s a very personal book as Ajay was talking about in terms of the hot messiness of being a working parent. And I have sections on podcasting and AAPI representation. And so, there’s a little bit of things for everybody. It's that kind of book where there’s a story in there on my oldest pooping on my husband on a plane while she’s in a Bjorn. So, it’s not this extremely academic book. It’s really real talk on what it’s been like and how a lot of parents and people think, “I’m the only one who doesn’t have things together.

And based on my bio people are like, “How do you do all these things?” But it’s like, “No, I’m 20 seconds from losing my ass all the time.” So, let’s normalize that conversation. So, I hope you guys can check it out and let all your audience know to really join and share your cancel the filter moments with me.

Speaker: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Founder’s Corner podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, and SoundCloud. If you are interested in being a guest, be sure to visit our main page at https://www.gmrwebteam.com/thefounderscorner.